90% of investors using alternative data are seeing a return on their investment

Learn how you can do the same


Putting Alternative Data to Use

Ninety percent of asset managers and hedge funds who are using alternative data sets as part of their investment strategies say the use of this data is paying off by delivering hoped-for returns.

To get more insights on alternative data, watch this webinar on demand, featuring a panel of industry experts from Greenwich Associates, Dun & Bradstreet, and Liquidnet. They discuss key findings from a recently released paper on how asset managers and hedge funds are finding, using, and benefiting from alternative data sources.

Watch on demand to learn:

  • Why a significant number of asset managers and hedge funds plan to increase alternative data spending in 2018.
  • The reason today’s alternative data will only be alternative for so long.
  • How investors are finding new alternative data sets and what they are doing to take action on those findings.
  • The challenges investors face when using alternative data.
  • Steps you can take to better leverage alternative data in your organization.

Presented by:

Arcadia Data
Waterline Data


everybody I think we're ready to get started

and pay personal

thanks for joining and welcome to Credit Associates

Market structure update we

will be continuing our coverage of

the alternative data space and

more specifically we're going to look beyond the definition

and categorization of alternative

data and get more effectively putting that

data into use managing

director hair Greenwich Associates I'm

responsible for the market structure and Technology

practice and I'll be the host today

I'm going to be joined by a

great panel at panels going to be moderated

by Kevin who's our head of research

within the market structure and Technology

practice is going to be joined by

Paul last-minute who is the practice

lead an advisor for financial

services are at Arcadia data

Adam Sussman head

of Market structure and liquidity Partnerships

at liquid man and biotic

senior director Global alliances

and great

paddle I'm sure it's going

to be very interesting in

just a couple of housekeeping

items if you're hearing an

echo in your ears are ringing please

check the audio settings make sure the telephone

is selected so

you're not getting duplicate audio

feed coming through the

presentation questions please

feel free to type them in the dialog box will

try to answer as many as we can during the webinar

or certainly at the end when

when time allows the Q&A if

we don't get to them absolutely

come back to you post

the webinar in Iraq

ban if you have additional questions

after the webinar we're going to give you

the contact details for the participants

please feel free to reach out directly

I think we also have a few polling questions in

the webinar today so please feel

free to provide input when

when when they come up on Friday and

then finally I'm as always encourage

you to fill out the survey following the event

always looking to improve and we certainly

want to make sure we cover those

areas and our future webinar that are

most interest to you

our clients and friends in the industry so

before I turn it over to Kevin

in the panel let me pick

up a minute just to plug Granite Associates

in the market structure practice in particular in

the practice we here

are focused on everything the changes

in the ecosystem of institutional

Financial Services whether that be changes

and that how they

may impact the market

participants and those folks

that glue the buy and sell side together differentiator

in here tremendous amount of

research with

the market participant in general and

this year I'm going to ask about three

and a half million questions to 65,000

Market participants on the

phone is the basis of the

data that then informed our analysis

and opinion so we think we've

got a great perspective and

it's based on data and

the market with

that with that marketing blurb out of the way

let's let's push forward into the end

of the presentation today


day of talking about alternative

data we are we

are Awash in in Dade everyday

see some of the components on

the slide everyday with creating

2 1/2 quintillion

bytes of data so both posted

on how many which quintillion and

1802 that 2.5

and you'll get through a quintillion start

stacking up those Blu-ray disc and get the

Eiffel Towers fall think

of how much data that is that we create

and then some specific examples from

their Bank of Walmart

near Walmart processing a

million customer transactions every

hour right literally

every piece of media from

around the world whether that be in

print in radio

was that be social and make that

available in America

I'm in does that for free amended

amount of information V in there and

look at the Facebook they're

uploading over 400 million photos every

day I have

to have Twitter versus the New York Times Twitter

today is going to post more

words in their New York Times has printed

in the last 50 years think

about that for a fact and

what that means is a tremendous

business out there and you'll see that there

are projections that this is going to gross I fold

over the coming

year it's a big business today it's

going to be a much as we

go forward and we think it's going to be

a very

important role in the investment on

the investment decision making

oh wait we try to make a very basic

do you hear of the alternative alternative

data ecosystem and

who are the market participants there

the least amount

of data Originators and

these are everyone from you may

you may have seen traditional data

originated those

type of things it really has

turned into a morph into anybody

that has an exhaust from

their day-to-day operations and

another component

of that ecosystem who are

the providers of

the Big Data platform those folks

that can take the data in

normalize it and make it applicable

in useful for Market participants

and I want that happens you need the subject

matter experts those folks that not

only can identify the the alternative

data but

understand what it means and how

it impacts an investment decision

and then it gets all the way around to the beneficiaries

whether that be the asset manager is all

the way down to individual

investors like all of us here

today and

I'm trying to put together a bit of a an

ecosystem view the

intense Harrison to be exhausted

because quite honestly I

shut this down by probably

80% to get the name on

this flight the

attention was really just a show where

we think some of those categories

are in the alternative ecosystem

in in to show some of the names

that are out here something you know

right so

you see Arcadia is in there but they're Bloomberg

in fact that and CR another.

& Bradstreet on here but you see

also other than you maybe have

never heard of and these are all

very active names in the alternative date

of space let's

let's turn it over to our first question

I think I first pull question is going to

ask for the participants

here we

do you think you fit in

that alternative data ecosystem


for getting us started and kind

of like the same question

Akai Kevin an audience thanks

we're clearly

a source of the

state of it but you'd call hear a date originator

Aaron we provide data

and business intelligence on both public

and private companies and have

unique transaction data

we also have proprietary scores

are developed by around 11:16 most

of which focused on the

value of Trade Credit transactions

payment behaviors of public and private companies

information about business

relationships businesses supply chain

that information we found

especially in the The Evolution

here of alternative data has become

valuable to other

by sides ability to

provide predictive signals within

their algorithm so that's kind of how the data is

used today Adam

from liquid knots perspective where do you sit in this

ecosystem Dad

thanks Kevin liquid net

you know being a broker-dealer and

having a front-end interface

that Services

800 by

side firms globally

would sit somewhere between you

know a beneficiary and a

in a big data provide

better we acquired a company

earlier this year called switch

and work extensively with london-based

trading desks

to be able to transform data

a combination of Market data fundamental

data and alternative data into

actionable insights and

then integrate those inside seamlessly

into the end of the year.

Acquisition you know we've

acquired the ability of ingest

this all

kinds of data including alternative data

and then process

in such a way to make it relevant for

for our customers true

beneficiary of that data to

but yeah I


have to be hard with

everybody Arcadia

data we are on the technology

side but we do the date of visualization

so what we do is we enable

the end-users the beneficiaries

the subject matter expert

tell the visual eyes to be able to see

the day that I put together and

to really get the the value

out of it and all its granular Lori


the results of the Paul,

glad to see our audience is a pretty good mix

of the ecosystem as well but

a good number of a resonator on

big data analytics platform the 1st

which is all

going to take us through a good

visual youth kudelka to

feel what we talk about these things they

always feel a bit fluffy

and in the clouds no pun

intended really understand

how this can be used in practice

we think we pick would be helpful

for the audience and


everybody to think about what

alternative date is what they're using it for and

really to get the conversation going later

on and I'll

look at an example of an unconventional

with alternative data

so it's really about look

at your conventional portfolio analysis in

this example if you're looking

at retail stores or or something like

that and if no remote

standard performance chart you

looking for for you

know what's the trade in value and that's all conventional

apple bloom again here now

is say okay how can you enrich

that and you enrich that

with alternative data sets that's the

story here so I'm looking again at

a retail stores in a lot

of it could be looking at different

types of data points

or beta acids and

tying them together to

location and then

you're able to from that really

be able to see Apples to Apples when you're going from location

location location that's pretty important I

think I'm looking at another one

is going past the

show in this

case scenario

I want to buy a little bit looking

at this sort of data that that Dun

& Bradstreet has an account

with the scenario right so I'm picking up

a portfolio manager they have fun I'll

call it a bucket of opportunities to read your

water companies that they may want to invested

and from that of

course you have your fundamental due diligence

is performed that's right

here that's your candy bar charts

and then line charts and things like that but

the question after that is what

else can inform the decision-making

so one of it is

you know how healthy is the company I'm

looking at commercial credit scores Financial

stress what's the health of the

suppliers are there are

there any dependencies of the suppliers are

able to deliver and then the products

that this company is very good at you

know starts to fall behind looking

at other investors are you

first of the table or

a lot of people looking at it and so I just

came up with this network's chart that shows

that what is the type

of stuff that. Dun & Bradstreet has and

it'll take another look it almost gives

few more examples of how you might

be able to visualize this again these

are just ideas just get the ideas

going so you don't look at the idea

of a company help that we

talked about a little bit earlier

looking at the company

relationships substitute

Sherry I'll make it to the show The Beneficial

owners what's the percent of it.

So the thing and going

back to the other idea where

are they located I

was just looking at my

own I looked at in touch this would be

interesting this might provide

additional Insight so it just

shows the idea of being able to explore

and come up with your own insides based

on the data.

I was

going to pick up on you as

one of the more interesting factors that we

found that the data

that we provide both alive

and active and in Trials what we found this

interesting that once you put

it in the hands of the real

smart quance

that works with the hedge funds and some of the other portfolio

managers it's exciting

to see how they come up with with their

own ideas

as you just a articulated that

maybe we are nobody else is ever saw that but I

think that's the value here when you look at what

the meaning of alternative data is regardless

of what kind of data every

every end user

has their own value Ford

based on their strategy based on

on the kind of algorithms day they

deploy based on how smart they are not

whatever their experience might be and

I think that is a opener

for us here and

you probably

see it too I might be interested

in hearing what from Adams

point of view with you see the same kind of think

that I'm from your end uses about

to a creative aspect of this

yeah I know that's it that's a great question to

any other way this is the kind

of use cases that we found and

the applications for alternative

data the way that

I would kind of split it out as

between the single stock

folks out

there and and inverses programmatic

trading and then

also thinking about it along the lines

of you know discretionary meeting

that there's a human deeply involved in the investment

process vs. systemic

in the type of data as

well you know how the

data gets fed into that those processes

varies widely between

you know those kind of four different

those four

different in

a ways of waste

and now it is the Traders

are acting more and

more as it's

kind of like substitutes for what

the traditional sales Trader used

to do I told you know as we

all know that you know that the compact

among the poles brackets in the decline

of November or folks

Manning and so has

become the person that the portfolio

manager looks to for

what's happening in the marketplace so you

know that's the kind of data and

the way that they use that day that you know is

probably about the

investment process because you

know the p.m. is already gone through that right

now what's

happening in the market did I

might need to know in

order to kind of sides

that I want to get done or the

urgency of

completing the order and

that's where it gets back to you know

give it back to

you know that I had a smorgasbord

of data providers out there would

be more along the lines of in

a real time real

time alternate day too maybe that's

better that you know sentiment analysis or

you know the near time media

content from gdl things like that

and the process that uses

his to say we're going to

we're going to look for abnormal

changes in the actual behavior of the stock

that's the first thing to look at right and

then you know that that alternate

data is is explanatory right

so then we try to say okay there's some

there's something happening and you need to pay

attention now let you

know help you find any explanation

for why that happened

does a slightly different use case for what

we're at what we're going through here but I think it makes sense that

you know on the trading desk you're going

to be looking for more real-time data when

you're going up to the portfolio management

level as you're all you're probably looking at

in a longer time Horizons

when it comes to the kind of data

that you're looking at

no it's okay. I was just going to say anything about

this could be to you to you to you as well

but you know you finding out the

Traders are quickly getting getting

the joke or it's in the valley or

is it feel like it's been a steep learning curve group

about that maybe has been doing what they do

to the family of her for a long time you

know what I mean by

side is a very heterogeneous

population right you got up all

sorts of different kinds of personalities and

work clothes so it's hard to

paint them with the broad brush-stroke

but I would say that everybody

is has looked at

things like in our social at the social

velocity index in for some people

it's been relevant in for other people

you know annoyed so

I don't know if it's still like about me know getting

the Joker not as to whether he knows more

about you know how much

does it really help than

an Executor on the objectives of

their portfolio manager if you're buying

a hold you know shop

and you're holding names for 5 10

years and then it's just not it's just not

going to be alright in

the portfolio manager may not care that Trump

has tweeted something just

be annoyed by knowing that so

that other shops where

they might they might still be lonely

but they're training around position

right so they're going to hold

a stock for a long period of time but they

might trade around it and thighs up inside

down depending on market conditions that's

where you start to get into work

clothes where this kind of data becomes

irrelevant and you know really helps

them add performance to the to

the portfolio move

to an even more you know higher

turnover shop like a hedge fund Trader

actually had some discretion over

the size of the of the

position you know then now

your get you know to the real Cutting

Edge Xbox and

from from Donna Bradford perspective I

think we


more from the with the the

duck wanting to date at

the big data analyst

at the shop so they undoubtedly

will get the joke they

are so immersed in this

that once you get them to

understand that

all big data is not equal alternative

day does not equal and social media date

is different from geolocation

data the data

that we provide which is on a business

performance payment Behavior things like that

very quickly the eyes

open oh yeah that could be something

I never considered because honestly when you look

at the the Twitter than the square

spaces that's almost old knows

that the dead has had some Muse

some people don't actually think that there's

other financial data business performance

data once you get you a

present that it's very quickly absorb

and then the quads would want to dig deep

into it and try to understand where

some of the correlations are and we've

done a lot of that ourselves but they come up with their

own often and then or ask us

and then interative process to make

some but hey can you do this hey what

if I do this can you do that so yeah

because I think we're dealing with the quants

they're all over it and

I think that I think the

two you up again Paul I think the

kind of tools in Arcadia provides really

the way that that they want to look at things that

the charts

and graphs that you show here just on these couple

of slides is it.

That's the way that they used to before

okay yeah thanks X Factor that


see some questions talking about you

know providing access natural language

processing and so

forth with your questions

play question by next

talking about you know how this all right

and so we have Twitter

feeds things like that and a

lot of it looked at it putting into

it they don't like you what the data repository

where you put in

a native format rifle pre-processing

so glad they liked it a lot more

to it but

I'll just leave it at that

traditionally what you

have is you have these layers on top of it so yeah if

you extract the data warehouse putting

into these cubes putting it into

a data visualization server so

that people can get

access to it to make all

this work you know you're

going from this layered

architecture and

going directly to you where the data

results so I'm taking that same story

got all these data sources and they're

going into that they don't like the difference

fear is that you're

able to do your visual analytics.

But if I

was just referring to is you're actually going

directly to that date or you're inside

it and you're getting direct

access to it to do the official analytics

on and it's from that they

are able to do have the web-based interface

and build out these customized

application directly

on that data or just give me a little background

download that you see or things that I did

on my own just by exploring

looking at the data trying to figure out what the story

would be and if I

didn't have a data scientist working

on it was really you

Billy just to be able to explore it and I'm

not a I'm not a programmer myself

that's what he

was talking about he's asking how

does Arcadia data provide natural language

processing capabilities before

the visualization and also about

looking at strange so

going back to this the natural

language processing and so it was all that is being

done at the lake level or you could see

it as a source of data so you

have some machine learning algorithms things

like that that are going through and trying to figure out okay

what is the sentiment what is what are people

thinking about certain certain

brand that is to me a

data source and that were able

to access it and then you're able to make some sense

out of it and join it with other things

so we are not processing

in that sense we are

able to take that data unstructured

data real-time data historical

data and be able to allow

the end-user the subject matter expert

to really be able to see it and look at it

that's quite all the great day to hear

from the results of the study that we not

too long ago trying to understand what people

are actively using

today one of the findings

from here with that social media date of the

first thing that they think it's

pretty common at this point.

The manager can Edge find

so much though it's feeling

a little less alternative and more of

a normal normal course of business rate

other examples of where I'm

alternative data what type of alternative geolocation

satellite imagery

Spice in your life and

many of them probably more than you realize right

everything from your phone to quite possibly

your car I know my oven has a

Wi-Fi connection right so it's just it's really

going on and on and on and Illustrated

very well through Paul's demo

is finding that

data or realizing it existed non-trivial

on however the real tricky

part of taking a data and knowing exactly what

to do with it which

was the

date of birth strategy do

you have a portfolio manager

with a strategy who looks

to find data to support that idea or

do you have or call your master out

looking for data that

will potentially create a

new investment strategy under

no single answer that question

if we were to look at a high level tends

to be asset manager


money and bastard to have a strategy and

look for data to help enhance

a strategy of support that strategy

were at the hedge fund anyone

are more likely to just

start digging around through data I'm

looking for something interesting looking for a new correlation

to God you got for the visualization play


play that's what I was referring

to earlier right I feel like I could take

these categories and they

would pretty much line up with

you know whether the asset

manager or hedge fund was

single stock or

no program base

and or discretionary

vs. quantitative right

so you

know you like I don't think that you're going to find

a single stock

from that's going to say new types

of data Inspire new strategy idea


you know that they're already going

through a process to try to you know pick

a stock that's not going to change the

but the data

that they use could better inform

you know the preamble

are you finding

Adam yet that you're having customer

call and and point out hey you

know I did I did I did something that I wouldn't

have done without this or do you think it's a little still

too early days for that


yes we we do hear

that and it's usually

so far and this is probably as

indicative of where we are

in our life cycle of integrating

hotas into our front

end system is anything else is

that it

has more to do with

where went in a chilling

at any data in the right context

as opposed to you know

the data itself

right so it could be that someone told

us that you know hey I found

something really interesting via

you know the feed

from inside or score or from estimize

or Wall Street Horizons

you know a few of the data

providers that we have feeding into the system


it has more to do with where they were

in the process and how we

alerted them to the

change in the data then it was

like the data itself if that makes

any sense so that's all you know how I think

this is how this data gets integrated

into the process and how if

there's a human involved you know what

kind of contacts are shown around the

change in the data is as

important as you

know the other issues

that we've discussed


a reminder to the audience if you do have questions

please feel free to submit them through the through

the gotowebinar interface and thought

I was going to take it over to you and are

you off tonight I to stop one client

find ideas based on your data they

want to keep those ideas to themselves so are

you having clients to explain to you how

they're using it and if not it's

that up

they can you probably hit on the

the one of the most challenging things we

have to do so certainly

it as we would expect there are some

that share very

little to nothing there are others that

will outline the purposes

of of working with us and trying to get

us to understand what else

we might be able to do with the data

that help they have to share

some of the how they're using it or

at least frame

of a particular use case or scenario

what did Nick would help them it doesn't necessarily tell

us how they use it but they but they will

frame some scenarios for us and

help us understand what they're

looking for and if we could manipulate

data to provide

what they're looking for but it

does make it that at the nature of the

business and we do this going in it

does make it very different

from other businesses applying

data because we know we're not going

to know a whole lot about how

I think about it

the best clients we have the one that again the most

value of the ones are going to provide the least amount of information

back to us by definition

so that

combined with the the element of of

the the heterogeneity of

that no

two are alike so it's going to depend on how

many days that they have what their

technology is like what different

strategies they deploy where they are on their

cycle so just because had

fun decks using the data very

effectively Identify some opportunities

that doesn't mean that other hedge funds will so

not only do we not know precisely

how everyone is using the data but

even if we did that sometimes would

challenges find

the same guy to the next one everything is unique

and it makes it somewhat challenging but

it also was interesting when you begin to recognize

the value in many many

different had fun too many scenarios for

you as a true

value of the app that right I suspect

that I provided

in the value it

yeah yeah it is I mean obviously we

have our are a framework

for pricing and how we charge

for our data

sets but to some extent you hit

on a point in that the value of data

is a really

shell could easily be measured

by the value to that particular and

user and since we don't know the specific

value how much they might be making on it or how

they're using it we have really have no

other way to the frame it other than pricing

and packaging it by quality

of data type of data we have and

I think that works certainly

for now hopefully over time will

grow more intelligent about the uses

and and the market will become more

understanding and accepting of

that and we can have more variable

pricing strategy for for now it's

pretty easy on our side although we are aware

that there are unknowns there

that could change things over time

Kershaw rental in and finding

that value right it's it's at the corner

earlier it's one of the hardest part

even for the end users you

can see here when we add to her

folks looking at alternative date

of the use of data visualization

tools are number one growing


of the providers are you can't

help but notice you know Excel

just won't go away not

necessarily that we wanted to go away but the

power of excelling interesting

although I may befall put the deal

you have to imagine that is as

the customizable as

XL is your point earlier ride

you did what you did without without being

a programmer that you're still have

a hard time especially a data set guide

non-standard and very very big

I'm exhausted yeah

I know shows

that the use of alternative

data to temperature your

strategies or how you out you're going

to look at it it's very very much

a self-serve sort

of process right now you need

to be able to be

able to use your mic XLR but like Kevin

said XL everybody knows how to use it and


really doing the expiration on the Rhone


that it's really it's a service

they are driving process and

they're also working you know it is in

group shout it's also

yeah by the tool that allows for

the conversation about value clearly

investment Community is being

value of the

headlines out of our research that we put out

last month with

90% of the end up with

that are currently using alternative data

they're getting their return in

the bathroom already planning to spend more money

on this in the future

so what

if we know what is the next to

we in some ways

it's so obvious that this year

but not everybody's doing

it as

you better think about what else you can do with the data

how do you get it out there more you

know what are some of the major parties and

think that you're focused


think we're looking at not

just that the data applications

in this way but also where where else

does it fit in this industry

idea how can I date a cyst

for instance m&a

in a private Equity so

there are other factors that

we're considering and how to bring out some

of the date that we have to

make it and apply more effectively

in this business more broadly specifically

when you're looking at evaluation it's

weird talking in

this discussion here is primarily in the equity

space but in the same way that we

may be able to look at our private

company data and how it applies

to say private investor private Equity the

same holds true for fixed-income right by

our data and that way to to learn

more about a particular entity and

how it's how

it's linked in

I work in a business elements have

more information we can apply hot what

what kind of scores can we create for instance

to predict business

performance in a different way so we're always looking at

that and we learn from those

are trialling and those that are actively using

we also learn from people

like you and people like bike

Arcadia friends instead have ways of presenting

and displaying data that

bring out some of these opportunities so

it is always tricky and we know that probably

the most interesting part of this

is and you said I think

of money reports Kevin I said he won't turn the date

is only alternative for short time it's

consistently evolving so how we going to do

this next year and Beyond is something

that challenges I think all of us here

in this small company

right here trying to tell your daddy to as many people as

you can but on the other hand if you sell it to

everybody does it says it started and lose

value if I did not.

yeah it's at the challenge and not

just selling it but in marketing it because

if you know if we want to

when you want a phone call or if you're talking to you

want to say while everybody uses this so you should

too there's a an

aspect that you mention that because well you know if everybody's

using it I don't necessarily want to use it but

at the same time without that kind

of validation that others are getting value

from it you lose some of the potential

value in the selling point so they everybody

in this business has a similar challenge but

I think we know and I think everybody were

talking with nose so

it's not as if they think

nobody's using it they know that others use

it maybe you're not telling them but it is

check in and out of

your customers because alternative

date of the world is so big they probably

don't even know what to ask for it

so how do you guys figure out what

day to could be used to your

customer base us

one of the subject matter you

know experts or areas of expertise

that we gain through the acquisition

with oat I have a very in

a robust process through which they can

take in a inject data and

then c e you know what the

see if there's any outfit in there see

what type of outfit is see

if it's one

way to measure a data set is

over in Ohio over a long

or abroad list of stocks

if it is raining

Alpha signals then you

know what you know how much golf is

there when it's looking across do you know

a large set of fire buy and sell signals

Enterprise customer doesn't

really matter right we're

going to show a piece

of data to someone that only

has 10 names on

their blotter you know being

right 51% of the time isn't

good enough so you

know again depending on who

were looking to the service

and who's consuming the data you

know the kind

of outcomes that we're looking for

Change and so but

those are the ones that

manage that process

in there you know evaluating different

data sets and thinking

about how we might incorporate it into

our front end

trading system but then also for

you know I owe

you know the kind of original

otash consumers that might

not be using it only for training

purposes but might also be using

it for the investment

as well

yeah it's

going back to you know it's only alternative for

certain amount of time it's really

about how well if used right cuz

everybody can. It's not really the dataset that's

going to get you how you how the

the portfolio manager

has been able to tie together Analyze

That looked at it and you

know how their team is able to put it together and it's

not actually two data sets by myself just

to get really a specific on our

use cases you know the way we think

about it is that you

would quit

eating without data and lower liquidity

without intelligent kind

of Reckless right because you could be

making a big trade at the wrong

time if you don't have the right date

in front of you but conversely

data without liquidity

is useless right so what

we're trying to do is bring together you

know all these days that

have some support but then also

be no show that out

a time where someone knows they

can take action there is a inability

to execute on that idea in

a right now I

think you bring up an interesting point that

there's such a

rush and focus on

big data and and the outset

of this call laid out

how much data cable kind of everybody

wants more data the more

there is only one and

there is a risk involved then you just hit it that what

day does not better necessarily unless

it's smart and actually it could be

risky or if you're not do you have

when you're not smart

enough and more

if you have of making that mistake and

that they can be compounded may wait over because

of the bed today that you have on

the bed was you using it so I

think that's something you'll have to bring out on that

nor lot of our trials are

our customers and Prospects are asking

for long histories of the date I want

more than they want more and more testing and

history so they can try to prove it

out but there is a risk factor

involved whatever

the price tag is $10,000

on a data set that you know because

you found a correlation and nobody's ever found

before that you need to make sure that

it's not like the price

of butter in Bangladesh compared to the S&P

500 right back. It's actually called


audience that's really

active in the space and thank you everybody

for filling out those questions when you

register the vast majority of a book

about on the webinar today are I'm

in some way shape or form actively involved in

the states which which

is great and when we asked about him

what what comes to mind

when you think alternative date of the list of

responses is

Ali dawah how much

really just friend called how big

this Market is and how it's only going

to get bigger yeah

so I mean really just can be any

type of data I'm

applying at the financial services really only goes

back to you know how creative

you know the end users of

matter expert quad can be with

it the

understanding for the how do you put some workout

interact with talked about a lot of the dynamic

the ready today you want to sell

as much as you can to make money but if you felt too

much you're not going to make much money understanding

of complexities are you are

pretty important

does it doesn't new you

know when new world and in many many

ways to write the the data didn't

exist before the tools to use to

utilize it didn't exist before I

need to know what to do with the situation today

over that is no small thing of

course yeah this is definitely a case of Pinot

first-mover advantages huge


if you have information that nobody else does which

is something obviously that's as old as Wall

Street I'm in most certainly applies here

and will be quite a bit I'm more more

value there so so before

I before we wrap it up and

call it may be any search Final

the big sauce from any

of our panelist what the audience to think about

and and and

yet it will end up all

bobetta I just what

I said this is Paul again and we'll exchange from

the the research report that we that

we were going to try and everything

else the other alternative

data as a process and

it's an iterative process and it's an exploratory

process and I

think it's just going to get a lot more interesting

as we as we go forward

final thoughts well

I think your first of all one

thing to recognize this when at

a time now when Capital

markets investing you become

so much more efficient and

your passive investing is growing I

think you have to look at it is it's

becoming more and more difficult that little sliver

of valve is more of a challenge to

reach in sometime Hill alternative data

can be the difference between Alpha and beta for

any professional investor so looking

at turning over every Rock and trying to

understand where the value is and

trying to stay ahead of the curve is

really a challenge as no

more more money comes in from the fiduciary

there is so much more of its

going past is that if you're if you're active

and your manager going to head that

way you've got to identify the

data and most importantly find the best

ways to use it and apply it to fit

the strategies that that you have and

whether it's finding

no data from a provider

such a stunning bride Street or or or

getting a platform like Arcadia that

to be able to bring out

some of those opportunities or

apply it to trade broker

like liquid everybody's

radar now it was looking to

try to identify that that

particular flavor that's going to take them all

over the top and then she supposed

to be I think

that no matter where you fall in

the ecosystem no

becoming more familiar with

alternative data and the processes

that are you convert

that into you know whether it sent

to men or in the living room kitchen whatever

it is no to me that's just like

a new form of literacy that everyone

in this industry is going to have to have some

level of comfort with you

know it had like it reminds me of being

a going back to the early

nineties and electronic trading and if you didn't

know the basics of how

computers work Torino

simple jargon around

programming in a year were going

to be a programmer

I'm not a date but I think

it's incumbent upon anyone in this industry

that they become more familiar

with data science and it's just

basic constructs so that when

they are looking at or reading

about different types of products

different types of data they

can kind of quickly filter

out what might be worth investigating versus

what may not be as relevant for their own


me talk to quick questions out of the panel first

one is alternative


portfolio managers are

given at the traffic insecurities that I

left liquid with lower price transparency me


credit score and spend office

in the market that impact

set it up a company or

not all that much different than two factors that can impact

of the equity in

a company understanding understanding


the reason it all the way

back up some of that would

have now become the obvious answers of taking

pictures of parking lot time to stand

up for down

for a retail

chain and in some ways the opacity

of pricing and even

more right for alternative data because


Trying to figure out how they can better

understand valuation door or

predict the direction of the market because the market

is I

think I can I think

I can be even more useful

you know the early used to make

sure that's all work before applying to more complex

probably doesn't

go back to Adams associated

with the use of any

Edge funds from

embracing them to the fullest extent you

collect as a farm and what you do with it but

it's some Jazzy unknown hurting

its adoption

from the point

of view of a data provider

or day or a source yeah

they're there are things that as

you noted that the


to disclose based on the way

we collect the data that

we or were fully aware

that if we were able to disclose it make

that more transparent it would become more

valuable to the fund

there and there's a number of times where we

have to find ways to aggregate

disguise and otherwise

obfuscate the

ability of some of the funds

not only to see the

details but to

be able to reverse engineer it so

we got to make sure that they can't

recently reverse-engineer the data because

of the agreement we have the collecting it so

yeah that's certainly inhibits

awesome as well as many other data

provided it

doesn't ugly shoes that are legal

agreement issues all that fall into place when

you look in alternative date I think that that's

at the corner of adult alternative for a reason

because sometimes we don't really know what

were able to reasonably

disclose and end and that you said it before

Kevin what's your oven disclosing

about the way you live

your life and how much of that is if


no no ahead and interesting

concept but if you go back to sleep

early around

the the primary

networks what would happen

Aaron and how

and when do something like that come into the all

data space.

Time will tell me a space to

watch up and then

we actually asked for from

everybody on the line so I think we're here

we'll get back to those folks individually

and certainly if we have not addressed the particular

question feel free to reach out to us would

love to make that connection let

me think all Adam

Bob and everybody on the line for the

participation the fact that we did go over

certainly talks to the interesting

nature of the subject it continues to evolve

into on our radar

and happy to share

that with you as we as

we progressed if there's anything

further that we can do once

again please get back to you got our contact

at the

vet thanks again for your time and

it will be back again later

thanks everybody preciate it thank

you thank you